Space & Astronomy/Space and Astronomy (October 1993).iso/mac/TEXT/SPACEDIG/V11_2/V11_290.TXT

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Subject: SPACE Digest V11 #290

SPACE Digest                                     Volume 11 : Issue 290

Today's Topics:
          United Space Federation is bogus.
                 SETI
            Re: Vandeburg Launch Schedules
              Re: Arecibo (sp?) message
         Pegasus & launching from supersonic aircraft
            Ariane Launch Failure
                [HELP]
       Re: Very long wavelength antenna (was Re: Drake Equation
       Re: Drake Equation (was Re: Interstellar travel)
          How to login to ames.arc.nasa.gov
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 20 Apr 90 00:08:26 GMT
From: sdd.hp.com!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!samsung!dali!milton!maven![e-mail]
Subject: United Space Federation is bogus.

Thoughts on the United Space Federation.
Summary : They are not worth anything.

I read with interest the proclamation of existance from the United Space
Federation.  I read with interest because anyone who has the wherewithal
to actually DO something deserves some consideration.  (Also I would like
to find out just what it takes to become a member in the U.N.)

In any case, I sent for the literature.  This came to me in the form of
a packet of photocopied stuff.  A lot of which was the same as was posted
on the net.  There were some notes that were interesting, and others that
now seem to show the oddities.  Foremost was the statement that his SPEAKING
FEE for the New York area was $10.00 to cover gas.

However there was a note that said if I wanted a FULL packet to send $4.00.
It also said to make the check out to Rick R. Dobson, United Space Federation.
After looking it over, I decided that there might be some information there
that warrented a look, so I made out a check at some later date to the United
Space Federation.  (Well, so >I< made a mistake, but it was several hours
later.)  And I included a note asking specifically what type of hardware
he was looking into building.  (After all he did state that one of the
objectives was to build something) And I made mention of phoenix type craft
in passing.

Several weeks later, I got a nasty letter from them, (handwritten) stating
"You addressed the check to the United Space Foundation, if you want
information from the United Space Foundation, I would ADVISE you to send it
to them, and not the United Space Federation.  Thank you!!  If you are truely
interested in the United Space Federation, and wish further information.
Please send a money order for $4.00 to the above address made out as follows:
Rick R. Dobson F&FD, USF."
(F$FD stands for Founder and First Director.)
(All spelling and punctuation in "" is original and not MY mistake.)
Oh, yea, he returned the torn up check taped to a photocopy of the check
before it was torn up.

He goes on to state
"the USF is not interested in small launcher/soft landing craft like the
phoenix project.  The space craft the USF would be involved in are going to
be larger interplanetary International Space cruisers which will not be
designed to land, but to carry personnel and resources back and forth between
planetary bodies only!"


Um, the first seems to indicate that he does not have non-profit status
needed to cash a check made out to other than himself.  A good clue that
he really isn't that organized.

The second indicates that he really has no clue that before you can build
a non-landing craft, you gotta get out into space where you can build it.
And if you ain't interested in getting to the first point, you ain't NEVER
going to get the second.

Summary :  Looks like some guy that really does not have it together.
    Seems like ANYONE else is a better bet at this time.

            John Stevens-Schlick

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Apr 90 16:32:41 EDT
From: John Roberts <[e-mail]>
Disclaimer: Opinions expressed are those of the sender
    and do not reflect NIST policy or agreement.
Subject: SETI

>From: idacrd![e-mail]  (Robert McGwier)
>Subject: Re: Listening to the Star (was RE: Drake Equation)

>> The point that people are forgetting is the impracticality of advanced
>> civilisations using radio signals, especially if they're technologically
>> advanced enough to have colonised other worlds and thereby need to keep in
>> contact.

>I couldn't agree more.  While visiting JPL a couple of years ago, I met
>with the folks who were doing advanced research for the Casini (Saturn
>orbiter, titan probe) mission.  Even at that time they were working on
>single photon laser detectors so that LIGHT could be used as the data
>link back to earth achieving incredible data rates.  If coherent light
>and incredible data rates (and fiber optics etc.) is the mainstay of
>communications of another world, SETI, as now envisioned, is probably
>a waste.

Is visible or near-visible light practical for communication at interstellar
distances using current or near-term technology? I can believe that light
might be made useful for specific interplanetary data paths, but it seems
less practical at greater distances. While a laser beam (projected through
a telescope) has the advantage of much smaller divergence than a radio
transmitter, radio receivers can be extremely selective and much more sensitive
than current light receivers. In addition, stars put out tremendous quantities
of energy over a continuous spectrum from infrared to ultraviolet, so the
"noise background" for light communications is much worse than at many radio
frequencies.

As a test example, I tried to work out the numbers for a receiver 4 light-years
from earth, operating at 500nm plus or minus 1nm. Even with a beam divergence
of only 20 milliarcseconds (at best state of the art by modern standards)
and a beam power of 100000 watts (probably beyond state of the art for
continuous output), I come up with the conclusion that the number of photons
in this narrow bandwidth coming from the sun will outnumber those from the
transmitter by a factor of millions to one. Reception of the data does not
seem practical.

I know that modern radio telescopes are amazingly sensitive, but I don't know
the exact magnitude of their abilities. With their current transmitters and
receivers, how far across space could Goldstone or Arecibo communicate with
comparable devices?
                      John Roberts
                      [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: 17 Apr 90 16:43:42 GMT
From: hpfcso!hpldola!hp-lsd![e-mail]  (Paul Carroll)
Subject: Re: Vandeburg Launch Schedules


    I went to the launch of the Delta with the COBE satellite
    back in December.  Since I didn't know anyone on the base
    and I wasn't a VIP, I was directed to the public viewing area,
    which is by the weather station just to the north-east of the
    main gate.  Watching a Delta is quite the experience, what with
    the strap-ons falling off during launch.  However, an Atlas
    launch would probably be even better.  I would recommend
    taking good binoculars or a small telescope.  I used my
    Minolta 7000i with a 200mm zoom to track the launch and my
    pictures weren't the greatest (also due to the early morning
    launch).  I'll check the maps that I got from Vandenburg and
    see if there is any kind of phone number for calls about launches.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+    Paul Carroll            "Dear Lord, please break the laws    +
+    HP Logic Systems Division     of the universe for my convenience."+
+    hplabs!hp-lsd!paulc            - Emo Phillips               +
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

------------------------------

Date: 18 Apr 90 20:24:11 GMT
From: mephisto!prism![e-mail]  (Matthew DeLuca)
Subject: Re: Arecibo (sp?) message

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Henry Spencer) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Michael A. Simpkins) writes:
>>Exactly what image did they choose to send to these far off worlds?
>
>It was a crude bitmap picture plus some binary data; I don't have details
>on hand.

If anyone's interested, a 'picture' (as the image would appear after being
decoded from the binary) of the transmission can be found in the book
_Cosmos_, by Carl Sagan, as well as an explanation of all that is in it.

From memory, I believe the picture included a stick-figure human, to indicate
our basic physical structure, a very simple diagram of our solar system,
with the third planet highlighted, and a simple image of the Arecibo dish.
Also included was information on our chemical makeup, data on the dish, and
some elementary information on our solar system.

--
Matthew DeLuca
Georgia Institute of Technology      Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards,
Office of Computing Services         for they are subtle, and quick to anger.
ARPA: [e-mail]

------------------------------

Subject: Pegasus & launching from supersonic aircraft
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 90 17:43:20 MESZ
From: Joseph C. Pistritto <[e-mail]>
Mailer: Elm [revision: 64.9]

A number of people have commented on the possibility of launching
the Pegasus from a supersonic carrier aircraft.  A really major
problem in doing this is the problem of stable seperation.  Note
that even supersonic bombers are not design to drop gravity (free-
fall) bombs while supersonic.  Interaction with the shock wave
is just too much of a problem.  Supersonic aircraft can drop
missiles, but these are in powered flight at the point of
seperation.

There's No Way that you could drop the Pegasus in powered flight
from an aircraft you wanted to use again...

To drop it unpowered (as was done) but supersonically could probably
be done, but I bet it would take a major aerodynamic redesign of the
vehicle (in particular, the 'wing' is designed to produce significant
lift at supersonic speeds, this could make getting rid of it a problem
if the aircraft is already supersonic).

And any of this defeats the purpose, to make a vehicle cheap enough
for a private company to develop.  Remember, the $40 million they
spent on the Pegasus bankrupted (literally) the company, they were
overextended on their credit lines the day of the launch!
                                        -jcp-

--
Joseph C. Pistritto ([e-mail] -or- cgch![e-mail])
 Ciba Geigy AG, R1241.1.01, Postfach CH4002, Basel, Switzerland
 Tel: [phone] (work) [phone] (home)   GMT+2hrs!

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Apr 90 15:57:57 SET
From: [e-mail]
Comment: CROSSNET mail via SMTP@INTERBIT
Comment: File FAILURE2 TEXT A
Subject: Ariane Launch Failure

Some more news from the ESA Information Retrieval System:


   I R S   Distribution of Aerospace Daily Information     Page  1
                   FRIDAY APRIL 13, 1990
                        Article No :  7

 ARIANE 44L booster exploded Feb. 22 because a piece of cloth lodged in a
 water pipe, an Arianespace accident inquiry board reported.

 CLOTH LODGED IN WATER LINE BLAMED FOR ARIANE EXPLOSION
    A piece of cloth lodged in a water pipe caused the Feb. 22 explosion of an
 Ariane 44L booster carrying two Japanese satellites, an Arianespace accident
 inquiry board reported yesterday.
    The cloth was probably left behind after workers conducted "non- standard
 servicing" on the water tubing six or seven months ago when the booster was
 being integrated in Kourou, the board said. Technicians had to repair the
 tubing when two pieces failed to screw together properly.
    The material obstructed the main water valve leading to the booster's first
 stage D engine, reducing the flow to a turbine used to pump propellants into
 the combustion chamber. The engine dropped to about half of its normal thrust
 6.2 seconds after launch and exploded 101 seconds into the mission (DAILY,
 April 3, 10).
    Divers recovered the D engine's water valve and flexible tubing Sunday and
 it was flown to France Tuesday for inspection at the Sacley Jet Propulsion Test
 Center near Paris.

Regards, Lutz Massonne

 +===================================+===============================+
 | Lutz Massonne                     |   [e-mail]         |
 |                                   |                               |
 |                                   |This mail expresses my personal|
 | Robert-Bosch Str. 5               |opinions only and is in no way |
 | D-6100 Darmstadt, FRG             |official or reliable.          |
 +===================================+===============================+

------------------------------

Date: 19 Apr 90 18:55:23 GMT
From: sdd.hp.com!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov![e-mail]  (John Ho)
Subject: [HELP]

Well, this was posted on one of the newsgroups.. I consider this a high
insult to us JPL/Caltech.. Your help is needed... Please email to me..
Sorry, but I am not an astronomy major.. I only know computer...

>1. Name the inner planets and outer planets.
>2. List the planets in the order of distance from the Sun
>   (not Sun in California, I know it's hot there, too).
>3. Name the farthest planet that was visited by one of NASA spacecrafts.
>4. Name that spacecraft
>5. Give the date of that visit
>6. Name the sister planet of Earth

>I think one of Cowsteak students will get this because they live in
>the same town with NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory (the one that
>manages the spacecraf).

~John

[e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: 19 Apr 90 23:35:13 GMT
From: voder!dtg.nsc.com![e-mail]  (Lord Snooty @ The Giant Poisoned Electric Head )
Subject: Re: Very long wavelength antenna (was Re: Drake Equation

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Dan Tilque) writes:
> You're probably thinking of a proposal for one in IMPERIAL EARTH by
> Arthur C. Clarke (amazing how often his name comes up in this group,
> isn't it?).  That proposal was for one of fairly modest wavelength -- a
> few kilometers, if I remember correctly.

This ULF antenna - it wouldn't have been a conducting version of the
Space Tether, another of Arthur's bright ideas, would it?
Just curious...
--
...........................................................................
Andrew Palfreyman    [e-mail]    Albania during April!

------------------------------

Date: 19 Apr 90 03:50:11 GMT
From: oliveb!tymix!hobbes![e-mail]  (Phil Nelson)
Subject: Re: Drake Equation (was Re: Interstellar travel)

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Daniel Briggs) writes:

>Sorry Dan, but I have to agree with Forrest here too.  At the lower
>frequencies, interference is a hell of a problem.  You don't just

 I hope this is not one of those often asked questions, what about 3000
miles of wire sending gigawatts at 60Hz? I don't know if it's all in phase,
but big chunks of it are. I guess it would be better if all the wire was
running parallel, maybe a little further from the ground, but it is a lot
of power. Does anyone know what the propogation of say, 20-200Hz is?

 Assuming these freqs propagate well, it seems like a good place to look.
On the other hand, if the the ETs think as I do, they will bury all their
cable quick, in case there are any bad guys listening. If I were an ET, I
wouldn't want EARTH listening, at least not until I knew for sure that it
wasn't going to turn in to a one-world government determined to spread
socialism to the stars.

 I guess I could assume that any one-world bureaucracy would be so self
absorbed and mired in red tape that they would not make it to the stars,
but what if I were wrong?

>-----
>This is a shared guest account, please send replies to
>[e-mail] (Internet)
>Dan Briggs / NRAO / P.O. Box O / Socorro, NM / 87801  (U.S. Snail)


Phil Nelson  .  uunet!pyramid!oliveb!tymix!pnelson  .  Voice:408-922-7508

    The lips of the righteous feed many,
                but fools die for lack of sense.        -Proverbs 10:21

------------------------------

Date: 20 Apr 90 02:24:16 GMT
From: zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sunybcs!ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu![e-mail]  (Samir Haque)
Subject: How to login to ames.arc.nasa.gov

at nasa ames. The article said that one should connect to ames.arc.nasa.gov
..that was no problem however I was prompted for a acct. name and
password. Seeing as I am not a nasa employee, is there any way that I can
login to this computer, i.e. is there a public domain acct. for everyone's
use??
                                   Thanks in advance,
                                                     Samir Haque.
=================================================================================

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V11 #290
*******************